The plane it's self

[XH668]

Being new I've got a few questions

Where did the idea for a 2 seat spitfire come from?

How did you create the 2nd seat?

Did they have 2 seat spit's in the war? i think not

Has it got a more powerful engine due to the weight ratio?

Thanks 

[James Wheeler]

Hello,

The Spitfire was converted to a 2 seater T9 trainer after the war for use by the Irish Air Force I believe, there were several like this made. It was originally a single seater and saw action on DDay being creditted with shooting down the first enemy aircraft of that day.

The 2nd seat was already in when Nick Grace bought the Spitfire and began to restore it.

I don't think it had a more powerful engine as a result of it being a 2 seater. I suppose the guns would have been removed which would have reduced the weight considerably allowing for the carrying of a passenger.

[James Wheeler]

There is a brief history of ML407 on the following page, it is right at the bottom so you will have to scroll down

http://www.ml407.co.uk/pages/main.html

[stevie k]

Being new I've got a few questions

Where did the idea for a 2 seat spitfire come from?

How did you create the 2nd seat?

Did they have 2 seat spit's in the war? i think not

Has it got a more powerful engine due to the weight ratio?

Thanks?

The idea came from the fact they didn't have any fighter trainers and as far as I know even up to the end of WWII they never did have any.
A Mk VIII was the first prototype two seat trainer at the back end of the war I think, and it is still flying today in the States.
The second seat is fitted by removing the lower forward fuel tank, shortening the top forward fuel tank, moving the cockpit forward by 13 inches and install a second cockpit behind. All the flying controls are duplicated in the front / rear cockpits.
The engine originally fitted would have been a Merlin 66, two speed, two stage supercharged engine. We now use a Merlin 25 single stage, two speed supercharged engine.

Hope all this rambling helps,

Stevie k

[Trevor 886]

My uncle worked on the Mk VIII prototype - G-AIDN. I can remember seeing it at Thruxton back in the 60s in an overall blue scheme with racing numbers.

The Irish Air Corps (which operated ML407) weren't the only ones to have T9s. Here is a picture of my uncle taken at Eastleigh with one awaiting delivery to the Dutch Air Force, The second picture is from the programmme for the first Farnborough Air Show in 1948, where G-AIDN appeared for the first time. Carolyn was asked to commemmorate this event. Just look at all the British aircraft being displayed compared with today!





Trevor 886

[tailwheel]

On the subject of 407 ,can anyone help with this?
A mate is very heavily into models of two seat Spitfires and tells me that the rear cockpit sliding canopy of 407 is of lower profile than original build T.IX.
If this is correct,is it a specially made item or cannibalized from another aircraft (eg: Sea Fury) ?
Cheers Guys
Tailwheel

[Gate Master]

Well I'm sure one of the experts will advise you however if you look at the 2 piccy then it appears that the rear canopy is lower ??




Andy D

[Spitfire crank]

As I understand it the rear canopy fitted to ML407 and other T9s was designed by Nick Grace during the rebuild of ML407
The recently restoredT9 in Irish colours had the "Grace " hood replaced by the original bubble canopy during its rebuild
Personally I think Nicks canopy is a great improvement on the lines of the aircraft over Supermarines effort
There are photos of both hood arrangements in the book 2nd TAF Spitfire available from Solo Enterprises

[ROBH]

Hi XH668,
I work for Smiths Aerospace and I have been given to VSI's to repair and certify on the Vulcan.
I know its nothing to do with the thread, just saying hello and best of luck.
Rob.

[Gate Master]

Rob,
Welcome to the board, we are a fairly amiable bunch, feel free to post any stuff on XH558.
Some pics on the photo board would be welcome
Regards
Andy d

[rrmerlin]

I have some old pictures of two-seaters.  Apparently, the concept goes back to 1941 but they probably were too busy producing pilots the

conventional way to act on it.  The Russian version looks very similar to ML407.  The pure bubble version looks as if the instructor had the ability to 

see well enough to land the plane in an emergency.  David Streeter




**EDIT JW Fixed broken image link for you

[rrmerlin]

All my images did not go, so will try again. Also forgot to mention that they conceived of a rear cockpit early on, but it was to carry a gunner with a turret to fire from.

[James Wheeler]

Just so you are aware David, you should see buttons on the top right of posts you made, one of them is modify which lets you go in and edit a post you made.

I fixed the broken links in the previous post for you

[ROBH]

Thanks Andy,
I'm still waiting to see Carolyn fly. I missed her last appearance at Sudeley Castle two years ago due to illness and I booked ml407 for our companies open day on that horrible start to september. It was the saturday of the Spitfire week end at Duxford where all flying was cancelled and Carolyn was going to fly down to Cheltenham.
Still I'm writing the cheque out tonight to join the club.
cheers
Rob.

[Gate Master]

Rob,
So you still have the pleasure of your first ML407 display..I can remember seeing Carolyn display in the early 1990's and that started my interest.
Looking into the history of the aircraft and how Nick put it back together again was very interesting reading.
Then in 1997 the Supporters Group was launched, this was Olivia's idea and as they say the rest is history.

regards
Andy D